The Firestorm at Entrecard

Okay, Acadia, I took your advice (um, only sort of). If I offend anyone, I apologize in advance.

A little background

When Phirate created "Firestorm", we all had a  blast pounding on EC, and those whom we felt caused our problems in the forums. Then accounts were locked/deleted, Firestorm was closed, and Cats was banned. Angry and determined to right what we considered a wrong, we went about creating a "little Firestorm" on the net. Not too surprising considering that we are bloggers/writers, and as such, we don't normally do well when someone attempts to censor us. Some of us even profited from this little Firestorm vis a vis blogs.
So now what?  (sorry, Monkey ;) )

Having calmed down considerably, I had to ask myself a question. At this point, are we gaining anything as a group? I tend to think not. Other than gaining a place to vent our annoyance, and engage in some tit for tat, we are accomplishing absolutely nothing, because we have no legitimate goal. Unless, of course, our goal is to harm the reputation of Entrecard, which really does not benefit us in the slightest. So, what should we be doing? 

I suggest that we should be doing something else. That is, if we really would like to have our cake and eat it too. What about a dialogue with Graham Langdon and Phirate? A roundtable discussion, so to speak? Now don't get me wrong, I have no idea  if they would be willing to participate in such a discussion, but I think it's worth it to make the attempt. Will we get everything we want? Probably not, that's assuming that they even agree to talk. But I do believe that calm discussion of the issues with Graham and Phirate could bring about at least some of the changes that we would like to see. 

I am advocating that we come together and determine what we need from Entrecard in order to feel that we are valuable to them as customers. Because, you see, we are their customers, and without customers, they couldn't exist. Any company that does not seriously value their customers, is in for a rude awakening.
What I would personally like to see happen

1. Apologies from Graham regarding the lockdown of my account, DotComMogul's account, Fantasy Baseball's account, and Cats With Thumbs account. These accounts were shut down with no notice until after the fact. Why? Because a mod, Lee Doyle. had a disagreement with us, and gave Graham Langdon a phony story. Graham (after all, he is only 21) jumped before getting advice from anyone who might actually have some experience in human relations, and locked the accounts down. Very bad public relations. I would also like to see Lee Doyle removed from any business association with Entrecard. I feel that his lack of ethics both on Entrecard, and in his personal life, make him a person I simply prefer not to deal with. 

2. Cats With Thumbs account restored. He did nothing to warrant his banning. Admin saw him as the "ringleader", and foolishly decided to cut off the head of the storm. what they still don't understand is that Cats had nothing to do with our belief in free speech. Hey, we are Americans people! Free speech is at the heart of our Constitution, we fought a war for it, we are unlikely to let it go without a fight. And besides, stifling the free exchange of ideas and opinions is simply useless. As you can see, we found other outlets. 

3. Finally, I would like to see Graham and Phirate work with us to craft rules for forum behavior that we can all live with
Regarding comments on this post...

I am sending the link to this post to both Phirate and Graham Langdon. Graham has a habit of ignoring private messages if what is said isn't to his liking. I really hope that you are big enough not to ignore this, Graham. You are both welcome to comment here without fear of censorship. ;)
Censorship will only be initiated if there is unwarranted flaming of individuals.

Glam

UPDATE, jULY 5, 2008:

Graham Langdon made a public apology of sorts to the users whose accounts were locked down. He further initiated discussions regarding the creation of a TOS for the forums at Entrecard.

On July 4, the forum privileges and   account of Cats With Thumbs were fully restored.

 

Copyright © by Inspire Emotion 2008. All rights are reserved. No re-posting of articles without prior written permission is allowed.

Technorati Tags: entrecard forums, entrecard, graham langdon, censorship on forums, firestorm, cats with thumbs, blogs, popular blogs on entrecard

Comments

[Chris]

Honestly, I don't think that technically we are losing anything either. I mean, let's be perfectly honest, as I am not here to sugarcoat: things were poorly handled starting at the top, and that really has not changed in the slightest in the time that has passed.

The longer that inaction is the plan of attack, the worse an attrition rate gets, and the more disgruntled the end user is. Apathy breeds discord, which breeds anger, which breeds feuds. Let's face the fact that it took place over a week ago and nothing has been said about it publicly, it's all been swept under some rug, never to be heard from again.

Until someone OTHER than Phirate admits to making a mistake, and that the actions take WERE heavy handed and one sided, and changes are actually made AND enforced, I see no compelling change in the dynamic. I'll most likely stick to writing on my site and answering messages that come through, but the forums are dead for all intents and purposes.

[Mark]

I thoroughly agree with everything you have said in your post as this problem needs to be sorted out through constructive dialogue otherwise it will simmer on in the background. Curtailment of freedom of speech and poor moderation and management on the forums led to this in the first place, and I sincerely hope that a satisfactory outcome can be achieved and that Graham and Phirate can come together with you and reach a suitable outcome for all parties. Please Graham and Phirate the olive branch has been extended!

[Monkey Tale]

Very nice well thought out post glam. I don't think anyone using Entrecard wants to see it fail, nor can it be denied that benefit many of us have gotten from the use of it. Censorship -- unwarranted censorship -- is the heart of this debacle. (Along with a lack of communication from Graham.) The only point I disagree with is banning Lee Doyle from Entrecard. (Bear with me, I detest that asshole.) He should simply be removed as a mod. His actions have been uncalled for and he is not suited to be any type of forum mod.

[Contamination]

For me the EC forums have had the life sucked out of them. Gone is the banter and chat, now it's just back to "EC Credits For Sale $1 / 1000".

Blerk!

[Rachel]

Well, if you noticed I quietly stopped posting a lot about this subject when it started getting personal with some people. Other than to ask people to stop doing that I wasn't saying much. I realized that people were taking things just a bit too personally and started attacking the way that people looked. I was even taken back by the comment you posted at Firestormed that Dot Com erased. Not that I love you any less because of it.

We have just taken a righteous debate about censorship and turned it into something ugly. I know we are all better than this.

[catswiththumbs]

Thanks for the props - a few clarifications: The Grand Pooh-Bahs banned me from posting on the forums - when that happened, I had had enough and asked for my account to be deleted.
Blog sites come and go - only time will tell if EC remains - I'm over it; it took up too much of my precious little time - I neglected what makes a blog a blog - writing.
EC is a marketing tool; it remains to be seen if it will be a viable one. Regardless, if there isn't any good writing to market, it will be just another community of pie in the sky dreamers garnering traffic to their . . . what?

[chilly]

I totally 100% from the heart agree with you! Apologies should be made to all accounts dealing in this matter should be made to those that were locked down. Cats should not be banned!!!
Before I go on, I will say that I barely know any of you and my statement is not on friendship and I follow no one! My statement is what I see in fairness.
These people along with myself did no wrong in the Firestorm forum. Lee came in that first day acting like nothing but a troll. I can not tell me he didn't know the rules of what was allowed. Rules were set and posted the night before on that forum by Phirate himself. And Lee has no business or reason to be a Mod!! Censorship and fairness or should I say unfairness is why I left the Entrecard forums. Only reason I'll post there, is to report something broken if it's bad enough to bother with.

Sensorship as strong as they want it on those forums do not belong and will kill a forum. To the leaders of Entrecard, If you don't believe what I say, just ask your new Mod, Ben about sensorship and forums.
Ever heard of Ezboard.com? Was one of the largest forum systems on the internet. Which is now Yuku.com. Well, Admin and Mods push censorship there. That whole system is about to go down the drain. One reason is for censorship. Both Ben and I just left there lately. He can tell you what censorship can do for forums.

chilly

[Lisa]

Great post! You stated the problem and what you think the solutions should be. Now, its up to Entrecard to step up and hopefully start a dialogue to what needs to be changed.

[Entrepreneur]

I dunno about this ... I mean, you can say whatever you want and call it free speech. You can then demand that you need not make any apologies for doing something that is as American as you can get. Fine.

But why the need for anyone else to apologize to you? They don't have the right to silence?

[Bob]

Entrecard.com is almost dead, one thing that i see alot is graham always contradict's himself.

he support somthing one day and the next his against it...

[Bob]

oh and i forgot to mention, he never replies to private messagesor emails... i wanted to sponsor EC and tried contacted him 9 times before i gave up because of no-response... and then he puts stuff like adsense all over the site to piss peaple off!!!

[An Apology]

Randy Pausch:

A good apology has three parts:
1. “I’m sorry”
2. “It was my fault” and
3. “How do I make it right”.

The last part tells about your sincerity.

[Mike Huang]

"Graham (after all, he is only 21) jumped before getting advice from anyone who might actually have some experience in human relations, and locked the accounts down."

Absolutely love that part,but I think you had no intention of making that sound different.

Anyways, I think there should be a better forum that actually allows all these rants. It's better to know everything rather than having the members hide convos elsewhere.

-Mike

[glam]

@ Chris....I hear ya, and I agree that the apology needs to come from Graham.

@ Mark.....well said, Mark! :)

@ Monkey....hmmm...I guess I could live with Doyle being totally removed from mod duties. ;)

@ Cats....you are taking it all more calmly than the rest of us, and really, you have the biggest beef, imo. Kudos, Cats. ;)

[glam]

Rachel said: "I was even taken back by the comment you posted at Firestormed that Dot Com erased. Not that I love you any less because of it."

Rachel, she deleted the comment, and then made her accusatory post without posting the comment. How could you be taken aback by a comment you never saw, lol?
In any case, I am over it, and I have no antipathy toward DC at this point.

ps....I still love you too. ;)

[glam]

@ chilly, bob, and Lisa.....Thanks guys for contributing!

@"an apology"..... I love the quote, an apology!

@ Entrepreneur.......who said: "But why the need for anyone else to apologize to you? They don't have the right to silence"

Sure. They can be silent. But I require an apology if I am to feel like they value their customers. Nevertheless, it is, of course, their choice to make. ;)

All told, the next step is totally up to Graham.

[Rachel]

Wasn't it up before she deleted it? I swear I read it.

[glam]

@ Rachel.....nope, it wasn't up. She has comment moderation enabled. ;)
And, in my mind it was not at all unwarranted, btw. I spoke only to his ethics. As an owner? or mod of EC, I felt that his personal ethics were also an issue. I said nothing that I would be ashamed to post.

[Rachel]

My bad then. Heh...maybe I was taken back by another comment you left then. lol

[glam]

Damn it, Rachel! LOL. ;)

[Annie]

I have been pretty busy lately and I just happened to miss this whole mess. Something tells me I am glad I did! I am sad to see some of my favorite EC friends go, but their blogs are still in place and I can still read their great content. If this gives CWT more time to write than I say we made out on the good end of the deal because I always look forward to his stuff!! Blogging is what brought us all together, but I think EC made us all crazy! I love it, but it does take a lot of time that I don't really have. I am thankful for being able to meet great people and read great blogs through EC. That is what I think is important. Graham is young and smart, but isn't experience the best teacher? He will learn and he will probably move on to bigger and better things. In the meantime, this all sounds like an issue for High Schoolers!

[Beamer]

I missed all the action as well and I am feeling very lucky that I did so. I am just getting to know some of you fine folks and I am certainly glad of that fact, even those of you with the terrible spelling.

Beamer

[Sam Freedoms Internet Marketing Controversy Blog]

If Graham apologizes, the whole thing will eventually grind to a halt. Like it or not, every single one of you are his crop, period. If you don't get that, then you end up on the threshing floor quickly so you can become someone else's problem.

It's understandable that some people are frustrated at grave miscommunication but no one said life was fair and, sometimes, bright people do stupid things.

"But We Want Graham to Apologize!"

Please, move on before the incessant complaining becomes another bad habit to kick...

[glam]

Hey Sam, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, as uneducated as it is since you weren't around.

And i'm entitled ot my opinion.

And it would behoove Graham to take his customers a little more seriously.

[ê¿ê]

What SHOULD happen and what's GOING to happen may never be exactly the same.

I believe that Graham is frying other fish right now and hurt feelings from the clumsily handled stuff in the forums is way down on his priority list.

Sometimes that's just how life is, Glam. Now you need to decide if you're going to forget about this and move on or keep wallowing in your ire. What's more productive? What's going to make you happiest in the long run. I think they know where and how they messed up and recent other "hot" topics have been strictly left alone, so I also think they learned their lesson. That's probably all the apology you're going to get.

ê¿ê

[Sam Freedoms Internet Marketing Controversy Blog]

Of course you're entitled to your opinion. That's why there's something like 50k new blogs everyday.

But there's no evidence, or proof, that it behooves Graham to take a very small handful of upset members more seriously than he already has.

As for me being uneducated about anything, it's not even a possibility. If you don't know that by now, you will eventually - I'm everybody's friend no matter which incarnation I take.

[glam]

@ Sam - - Actually, you absolutely are uneducated in this matter, unless of course, Graham has given you access to deleted posts, threads, and Firestorm. Somehow, I think not.

It behooves ANY company to take their customers seriously. If you don't know that, than you have never been in sales.

The reasons that an apology was requested are many, but those below are foremost among them.

When our accounts were banned/locked down, I lost every single ad that had been scheduled for the following week. The end result?
1. I moved from the 2nd position in my category downward, downward, down.
2. My advertisers, unknowingly, were not going to get their money's worth, because I had no ads running myself, through no fault of my own.